[Xanth]

((I was going to post this as a Survey, but I couldn't think how to phrase them, sorry.))

I'm looking to renovate the Housing system this summer for one reason and another, so I'd like to hear your opinions before I try to tackle it.

Generally, I need to know if you like the housing system as it is now, or if there's anything you'd change.

Specifically, I want to know:

• Do you willingly buy homes for your characters, or do you do this simply because you have to under the "have IC=buy OOC" rule?
  
  
• If you bought a home willingly, what do you find appealing about your character owning a house?
  
  
• Do you willingly post threads for your character's homes, or do you do this only because you're supposed to under the housing rules?
  
  
• If you did so willingly, what was it you found appealing about having a thread for your character's home?
  
  
• If your characters have ever moved home, did you upgrade because you wanted to, or only because they outgrew the home they previously owned?
  
  
• If you moved them willingly, why did you want to?

Names for the housing options may change as well to keep up with setting evolution. (For instance, Kiel owns a small apartment, but instead of a one-floor flat his place is spread over two storeys so the term "small apartment" doesn't really fit his place and I'm looking to widen the scope of the options.) If you have any suggestions for this, or just want to say if you like or dislike the current options, that'd be great.

Also, I'll be looking at adjusting the pricing for houses, too, so any input you have will be helpful. (I don't want to only hear "lower the prices!" though )

Thank you for your time!

[Nicolay]

*helpful*

1.) I bought Nic's home because of the have IC=buy OOC rule. This is the first time I had to buy a house for my character, too. Most of the time, I just tell the mods they have one and they're fine with that. Or I book them a room in an apartment or dorm with other characters. I didn't buy Kazuma a house because his ones are heirlooms, though, as we had agreed upon. But if the rule didn't exist, I would have said that Kazuma lives in his own house atm.

3.) I honestly haven't done this for Nic yet because I always see this current one he's in as a temporary house. I'm waiting for something to happen to him ICly before I drop his first house and buy another one -- then I'll make a thread. I don't know why I thought this was okay, though. Me not posting a thread is probably against the rules. >.>;; I haven't done this for Kazuma, too, since he didn't buy a house and I had no idea if he needed a thread. I think this would also answer the last two questions.

Hope this is okay, too! :3

[Lazuli]

Do you willingly BUY HOMES for your characters, or do you do this simply because you have to under the "have IC=buy OOC" rule?

I buy homes mainly because of the OOC rule, and I think it's only fair or else people could randomly give their characters huge mansions. I do, however, think that people should be given the option to save up their OOC money before they buy. IC money does not equal OOC money, and if a character was supposedly rich but the player is not, then it wouldn't make sense for an extravagant character to live in a small apartment.

If you bought a home willingly, what do you find appealing about your character owning a house?

I think it's more realistic and fun to RP. I like that we can have house threads.

Do you willingly POST THREADS for your character's homes, or do you do this only because you're supposed to under the housing rules?

I willingly do. It's more realistic and the info's there for when you need it.

If you did so willingly, what was it you found appealing about having a thread for your character's home?

Same as I said above. People who want to go to your character's home can easily read the description so it saves time, and it's just more -organized-.



Basically, I'm personally fine with the current system. The only problem I have is with the buying OOCly part.

[Xanth]

Oohkay, thanks for the input, ladies.

Any more for any more?

[Remy]

• Do you willingly buy homes for your characters, or do you do this simply because you have to under the "have IC=buy OOC" rule?
  - Back in the day, I bought a house so that my characters could RP in the thread. Now, it's just an IC=buy OOC thing. And like Skyla said, that's only fair. We make our charries pay for their pets and stuff, so housing should be the same.
  
  
• If you bought a home willingly, what do you find appealing about your character owning a house?
  - I think there is a lot of potential in the housing boards, but none of our active characters seem to be keen on throwing house parties.
  
  
• Do you willingly post threads for your character's homes, or do you do this only because you're supposed to under the housing rules?
  - If I didn't post a thread for my character's home, I'd probably just post the description in his/her journal (when I get to it eventually). Writing the thread helps me get a better picture of my charries, since you can judge characters by how they decorate their homes.
  
  
• If you did so willingly, what was it you found appealing about having a thread for your character's home?
  - See above.
  
  
• If your characters have ever moved home, did you upgrade because you wanted to, or only because they outgrew the home they previously owned?
  - Elise moved from New Alexandria to Espur, so her OOC home had to move as well. If I upgraded a house, I'd do it only if I felt like writing a whole new setting for my character.
  
  
• If you moved them willingly, why did you want to?
  - Setting changes are fun! But seriously, I'd move my characters only if it was IC for them. For instance, Aiden could care less about his home b/c all he needs is a place to sleep in. ^__^

While I do like the idea of having a housing board, most threads in housing end up unused. Instead of requiring people to post a housing thread, they could post a description of their home in the journal as part of their application. Consider it a lengthier version of the "Current Residence" part of the application. It would be the same idea as posting the description of NPCs, inventory, etc.

Newcomers earn z250 when they apply, AND they have to pay for housing. If they take the box flat, that would be like, z50 left in their bank. A suggestion would be to offer housing as part of the Starter Pack. IE they can choose between Hotel, Box Flat, or Small Apartment.

[Xanth]

Ooh, Joy, I like that idea. Modest and Heroic packs can offer better housing then the same way they allow for more than one special item to start.

I've also been thinking of renaming the housing options. Currently, they're kind of limiting, in terms of name as much as description. Like, "semi-detached", "apartment" and such. Kiel's is from the one-bed apartment option but is actually half a house so it's on two storeys. Same space but the description doesn't allow much wiggle room, so I'm hoping to open that out a bit.

[Kazuma]

But here's a what if situation: what if the new character supposedly has a lot of money in their name and a small apartment won't be something in-character for them to take? I know this is a case-to-case basis but packs don't necessarily define a character, do they? It kind of limits the ideas if you ask me.

[Lazuli]

^ I agree with Liv on that -- that's one of the main things I see problematic. People would not be able to make rich first characters, although I think that's discouraged already...

Maybe you can make people go into OOC debt? xDD Lol. Monthly payment up!

But otherwise I think Joy's idea is brilliant. It would give newcomers more to start out with.

[Naava]

• Do you willingly buy homes for your characters, or do you do this simply because you have to under the "have IC=buy OOC" rule?
  
  I willingly buy them. My characters generally live in IC areas. I, however, am not exactly representative of EF's economy ._.;;
  
  
• If you bought a home willingly, what do you find appealing about your character owning a house?
  
  Having somewhere to RP that's more... personal. It's a good place to have characters meet up in specific circumstances, as it won't ever change.
  
  
• Do you willingly post threads for your character's homes, or do you do this only because you're supposed to under the housing rules?
  
  Yes, I do, however not usually in a timely manner. I think the main thing I would change is to remove the time limit for posting the thread. Just because you've bought it doesn't mean you need it straight away.
  
  
• If you did so willingly, what was it you found appealing about having a thread for your character's home?
  
  You can have a thread that you can keep for your own specific wants. It's also a neat look into the life of your character.
  
  
• If your characters have ever moved home, did you upgrade because you wanted to, or only because they outgrew the home they previously owned?
  
  I've only moved for purely IC reasons. I think that's actually the general consensus thus far, too

I would say to change the naming options so that you can describe more of the aspects/condition of the home.

So... Separate off into Small/Medium/Large for everything, and have like...
Shack
Hotel Room
Apartment
Cabin
House
Mansion
Castle

And then have housing be different and more specific for unique buildings (Like the Cloud Palace).

While still keeping the land options the way they are

As for everyone's concerns about rich characters... I can't say that I agree with them. Making a rich character right off the bat is strongly discouraged on EF, so I think that only allowing the lower-end options for newbies is perfectly fine. If you have a rich character to start with somehow, you could always just say that they are currently living in an apartment that they own or something.

[Rea]

I feel that it is all relative. It depends on the RPer if it works or not. I like the system it seems like a good idea, though I haven't gotten around yet to buying up a place in cloud palace yet for Rea...*thinks she has enough to get it now*

But on the other end some people write characters with specific rich needs and thats the basis of the character. Like you could start out with a mansion that only has like a bed in it and no other furniture, does it still cost the same as a fournished apartment/shack or the same as a decked out mansion, if that makes sense?

[Nicolay]

Sarah presents a good point.

Also, about the rich characters, they don't necessarily have to be first. The thing is that every character starts with 250 bucks and if we're looking at the fact that they need to have a house OOC if they don't want to be sleeping in the streets, there's a kind of race or pressure to get a roof over your characters' heads, regardless of faithfulness to the character or whatever.

I like Skylala's idea of the monthly payment, though. >.>;;

[Xanth]

Russ is right, wealthy first characters aren't encouraged for a number of reasons, but that's also why we introduced packs. The idea with them is that you can have not just a more powerful character right from the start, but depending on the pack can claim up to three "special" items - which can include a house. Actually, even firsts with just a starter pack can claim a house as their one special item, so there's wiggle room there (assuming you don't want to use the "special" for something else, like a pet or a custom sword or something).

I have considered going the way of other RPs where housing isn't enforced at all, but it seems like that doesn't quite suit EF since we do have a bank system we rely on for other things. It seems to me like if we have that, and insist that things must be bought to claim your character has them, then housing should come under that. But, that's why I posted this thread, to see where you all stand with it.

Regarding the monthly debt payment... I like the idea, but I'm not sure it would be practical, really. We have a wonderful core of players who stay with us, but then we also have members who come and go and it wouldn't be a fair system if you guys were forced to pay back debts when those other members weren't (due to not being here). I'd consider working out some sort of reward system (like "you get x% taken off your debt if you pay every month for x months", or "if you don't pay off your debt or show any signs of trying to, your house is foreclosed" or something) so it would be a bit fairer, but it would be pretty tricky to do that so it was really fair.

To be honest, though, I don't see Elysia as being much of a lending society. It's more like back when if you wanted something, you had to save up for it, and if you didn't have the money to buy it there and then, you didn't get it. I'd like our OOC system to reflect that.

However, I really do like Joy's suggestion of offering housing as part of packs and house threads being optional. I'll add that (updating the application template) to my todo list. I might still keep a cash-housing system in place, but it may be more like upgrades available for cash rather than an outright buying system. Like, if you want to have a semi-detached house but only have a starter pack, you need to pay an extra z500 on top or something (just plucking those numbers off the top of my head... ).

Thanks for your help and input, guys!

[Lazuli]

Omg houses can be "special" items? ): I didn't know that!

[Kazuma]

I didn't know that either! I'm just glad I was informed while Kazu was still too poor to purchase houses. XDDDD

Tbh, though, I don't mind the whole pay-to-get-a-house gig, it kinda makes things look more thrilling but yeah, I guess it's just the whole payment thing since houses are pretty expensive especially for fresh accounts. ;;